GEOFF BENNETT: Good evening.

I'm Geoff Bennett.

Amna Nawaz is on assignment.

On the "NewsHour" tonight: Syria's new president addresses the U.N.

General Assembly, the first Syrian leader to do so in more than half-a-century.

We speak with Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer as the federal government moves closer to a shutdown.

SEN.

CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): He is derelict in his duty as president.

He should be sitting down with us.

He said he would.

GEOFF BENNETT: And our exclusive interview with the law professor who's suing West Point for new rules that he says violate free speech.

TIM BAKKEN, Law Professor, United States Military Academy at West Point: That's the essence of the First Amendment, speaking according to our conscience.

It's difficult to imagine any greater value in our Constitution.

(BREAK) GEOFF BENNETT: Welcome to the "News Hour."

A remarkable moment today at the U.N.

General Assembly in New York.

A man who just one year ago had a U.S.

bounty on his head strode to the center of the world stage as the president of Syria.

For the first time in nearly 60 years, a Syrian leader spoke to the assemble dignitaries.

And this time, it's Ahmed al-Sharaa, who fought the Assad regime for more than a decade and before that fought the Americans in Iraq.

Ali Rogin has more.

ALI ROGIN: The shadowy militant commander the U.S.

once hunted across Syria, now that nation's leader, making history as he took the stage at the U.N.

General Assembly.

AHMED AL-SHARAA, Syrian President: Syria has transformed from an exporter of crisis to an opportunity for peace for Syria and the region.

ALI ROGIN: Syrian President Ahmed al-Sharaa called for a lifting of all sanctions and promised a new Syria free of its wretched past.

AHMED AL-SHARAA: Syria today is rebuilding itself through establishing a new state, building institutions and laws that guarantee the rights of all without exception.

While turning the page of a wretched past, we are determined to restore Syria's glory, dignity and honor.

ALI ROGIN: It's a stunning shift for a man who until recently was designated a terrorist by the U.S.

and U.N.

Al-Sharaa has traded his fatigues for tailored suits and this week embraced the global stage in New York City, meeting world leaders including Secretary of State Marco Rubio.

He also attended political forums... GEN.

DAVID PETRAEUS (RET.

), Former CIA Director: Salaam alaikum.

ALI ROGIN: Even sitting down for a conversation with the former U.S.

general who 20 years ago had overseen his arrest and imprisonment in Iraq.

David Petraeus led American forces during the so-called surge of 2007, when Iraq's civil war lit the region afire.

GEN.

DAVID PETRAEUS: The fact is that we were on different sides when I was commanding the surge in Iraq.

You were, of course, detained by U.S.

forces for some five years, including, again, when I was the four-star there.

And here you are now as the president of Syria.

AHMED AL-SHARAA (through translator): It is good that at a time we were in the combat and then we now move to the discourse.

We moved from war to discourse.

We cannot judge the past based on the rules of today and cannot judge today based on the rules of the past.

ALI ROGIN: He was later released and fought in Syria under the nom de guerre Abu Mohammad al-Julani, and helped lead an al-Qaida offshoot before forming a Syrian insurgent group known by the acronym HTS that fought the Bashar al-Assad regime and governed the rebel control parts of Northwest Syria.

Late last year, HTS and other rebel groups toppled Assad in a lightning offensive that ended decades of dictatorship and years of brutal civil war.

As interim president, Sharaa has crafted an image of a moderate inclusive leader with a vision to transform Syria and bring it back into the international fold.

In May, the U.S.

lifted decades of sanctions, when al-Sharaa had a historic meeting with President Donald Trump, who later told the press he was impressed by him.

DONALD TRUMP, President of the United States: Very good, young, attractive guy, tough guy, with a strong past.

ALI ROGIN: But the road ahead for Syria is paved with challenges, a fragile peace held by divisive factions that trigger violence against Syrian minorities and decades of historic conflict with Israel, which has completely seized the Syrian Golan Heights and currently occupies part of Southern Syria.

Since the fall of the Assad regime, Israel has bombed Syrian defense infrastructure and continues to attack what it calls terrorist targets, weapons depots, air bases and military installations across Syria.

Yesterday, U.S.

special envoy to Syria Tom Barrack told reporters that Syria and Israel are close to concluding a de-escalation agreement.

But al-Sharaa today urged the international community to stand beside Syria against Israeli attacks.

AHMED AL-SHARAA: The Israeli strikes and attacks against my country continue, and Israeli policies contradict the international-supporting position for Syria, which threatens new crises and struggles in our region.

ALI ROGIN: For perspective on al-Sharaa's trip to New York and more broadly on his leadership in Syria, we turn to Ambassador James Jeffrey.

He previously served as U.S.

ambassador to Turkey and Iraq and was a special representative for Syria engagement during the first Trump administration.

He's now a distinguished fellow at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy.

Ambassador Jeffrey, thank you so much for joining us.

This was a big moment for al-Sharaa.

How do you think he did and what stood out to you about not just his speech today, but his whole trip to New York?

JAMES JEFFREY, U.S.

Special Representative for Syria Engagement: I think that, all in all, he was a hit.

His speech was well-delivered and well-received.

I think it calmed some people who were concerned, including at least some Israelis and some in Washington and in Congress.

And he sketched out a good way forward that the bulk of the international community can accept because it realizes there is no other alternative in Syria and you cannot have a secure Middle East without a stable and secure Syria.

ALI ROGIN: Al-Sharaa called for Congress to remove some sanctions on Syria that it controls.

What are the chances of that happening?

JAMES JEFFREY: Well, that's still a bit up in the air.

The Trump administration very strongly has advocated proposed sanctions known as the Caesar sanctions for a Syrian defector who revealed the atrocities under the Assad regime, which, by the way, al-Sharaa correctly focused on today to remind people of the past.

The Caesar sanctions make it very difficult to move money into the country.

Congress has to act.

Many in Congress are willing to move forward.

There is some hesitation.

The Trump administration is doing its best, as long as the al-Sharaa government continues to support integration and equality and peace throughout the country.

ALI ROGIN: And President al-Sharaa has also cultivated a seemingly good relationship with President Trump.

Is he somebody that the U.S.

believes it can work with?

And will his connection with President Trump help him?

JAMES JEFFREY: When I was a Syrian envoy, he was still officially on the terrorist list, but because he was not launching terrorist attacks, we did not use military strikes against him.

Rather, we cooperated indirectly with him against the Assad regime and to keep three million displaced people -- he mentioned that in his speech -- that were under his control in Idlib from fleeing into Turkey, into Europe, and further destabilizing many of our NATO allies.

He was very helpful in that regard.

And we were able to work with him then.

We are able to work with him now on issues from the Druze in the south in Suwayda to the Kurds in the north, to relations with Turkey, with Israel, and with the Arab states.

Again, it's not perfect, but nobody has an alternative.

ALI ROGIN: And speaking about those domestic dynamics at play, there are many that he is confronting.

There are -- there's civil strife.

There's deep sectarian divisions.

The country is rebuilding after a decade-plus of a damaging civil war.

Can he manage all those challenges?

JAMES JEFFREY: What we have seen is some good steps.

And he listed them in his speech about investigations and reviews of what happened with sectarian fighting in the south around the Druze areas and elsewhere in Syria, his willingness to invite the U.N.

and conduct its own review of the situation.

But he also stressed that Syria has to remain a unified country.

And I would underline that too.

If it breaks apart, countries all around it will try to find the best security situation for their own interests.

That will further push the country into civil war again.

Nobody wants that.

Nobody wants to see the Iranians and Hezbollah.

ALI ROGIN: On the topic of Israel, al-Sharaa criticized the strikes within his country, but he also said that he's committed to de-escalation.

Syria and Israel are involved in U.S.-brokered talks.

Based on the speech, what do you think are the prospects for some sort of security arrangement between the two countries?

JAMES JEFFREY: I think they're good for several reasons.

First of all, Israel's key concern -- Israel has many concerns on Syria and on many other places, as well as we know, for good reason.

But their main concern is the Druze minority, a small group in relative terms right along the Israeli border.

That can be dealt with relatively easily.

And they're talking about Israel also wants unofficially freedom of maneuver to launch strikes through Southern Syria against Iran if that's needed.

That's more difficult.

But, nonetheless, al-Sharaa struck the right tone.

He had to criticize the many Israeli strikes inside Syria.

But he also underlined the importance of coming to an agreement with Israel on the basis of the 1974 cease-fire agreement with the old Assad regime that preserved peace between Syria and Israel for many years.

And that's a very good step.

ALI ROGIN: Ambassador James Jeffrey, thank you so much.

JAMES JEFFREY: Thank you.

GEOFF BENNETT: And we start the day's other news in Texas.

A gunman opened fire at an ICE facility in Dallas this morning, killing one detainee and wounding two others, before taking his own life.

It happened at a field office where ICE agents processed detainees.

Police say the shooter fired from a nearby rooftop.

FBI Director Kash Patel posted on social media what he says are the suspect's unspent shell casings, one of them engraved with the words "Anti-ICE."

At a news conference, investigators said it's too early to determine a motive, but they're treating the shooting as an act of targeted violence.

JOE ROTHROCK, FBI Special Agent in Charge: This is just the most recent example of this type of attack.

This will be a whole-of-government response.

There will be no resource not utilized to bring all those individuals who are responsible, to bring them to justice and to hold them accountable.

GEOFF BENNETT: This is the third shooting in Texas just this year involving a Department of Homeland Security facility.

Officials at today's press conference condemned what appears to be a surge in political violence nationwide.

Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelenskyy told the U.N.

General Assembly today that the world is in -- quote -- "the most destructive arms race in human history."

Zelenskyy's comments came a day after he met with President Trump, who offered renewed support for Ukraine, going so far as to say that it could win back all of the territory it's lost to Russia.

During his speech, Zelenskyy also appealed for more military aid to keep fighting Russia, saying that such help in the near term could prevent long-term disaster.

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, Ukrainian President: Stopping Russia now is cheaper than wondering who will be the first to create a simple drone carrying a nuclear warhead.

So we must use everything we have together to force the aggressor to stop.

GEOFF BENNETT: Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov told reporters today that Russian troops are making steady progress on the battlefield in Ukraine.

As for President Trump's comments about Kyiv gaining ground, he said -- quote -- "The thesis that Ukraine can reclaim something is wrong."

Also at the U.N., China announced a new climate goal today, to cut its greenhouse gas emissions by 7 to 10 percent over the next decade.

President Xi Jinping made the pledge via video to more than 100 world leaders attending a climate summit.

China emits more global warming pollutants than any nation, but it also is the world's largest producer of renewable energy like wind and solar power.

The commitment comes a day after President Trump dismissed climate change as a -- quote -- "con job."

The U.S.

is not expected to set a climate goal of its own.

Typhoon Ragasa slammed into Southern China today, forcing residents across the region to hunker down and business owners to close up shop.

In Hong Kong, waves taller than lamp posts slammed into the shore in the early hours.

Schools there were shut today and flights were canceled.

In China's Guangdong Province, nearly two million people were relocated to avoid the worst of the storm, one of Asia's worst in recent years.

Before hitting southern China, Typhoon Ragasa ravaged Taiwan and the Philippines, killing at least 27 people.

The family of one of the victims of this year's midair collision in Washington, D.C., is suing the government and the airlines involved.

The lawsuit filed today is the first that aims to hold the FAA, the Army, American Airlines and its regional partner, PSA Airlines, accountable for the crash.

It claims that the carriers and officials utterly failed in their responsibilities to the traveling public.

At a press conference today, other families signaled they would join the lawsuit in the coming months.

DOUG LANE, Family Member of Victims: We are here to see this process through however long it takes to ensure that our family members have a lasting legacy that makes the world safer for everyone who flies.

GEOFF BENNETT: Sixty-seven people were killed when the airliner collided with an Army helicopter over the nation's capital in January.

It was the deadliest U.S.

plane crash in more than two decades.

The FBI says it found classified documents during a search last month of former National Security Adviser John Bolton's office.

According to court records, the materials relate to weapons of mass destruction, the U.S.

mission to the U.N.

and strategic government communications.

The raid was part of a Justice Department probe into whether Bolton held on to and then leaked sensitive material.

Bolton served during Mr.

Trump's first term, but has since become a frequent critic of the president.

In a statement, Bolton's lawyer said that: "An objective and thorough review will show nothing inappropriate was stored or kept by Ambassador Bolton."

On Wall Street today, stocks drifted lower for a second straight day.

The Dow Jones industrial average lost about 170 points.

The Nasdaq fell 75 points.

The S&P 500 also ended in negative territory.

And late-night host Jimmy Kimmel was back on air last night.

His opening monologue has since gone online, with more than 19 million views on social media so far and counting.

Kimmel was suspended last week for comments he made following the murder of conservative activist Charlie Kirk.

In his return, Kimmel brought a mix of sincerity and defiance as Deema Zein reports.

(CHEERING) JIMMY KIMMEL, Host, "Jimmy Kimmel Live": Thank you.

Thank you.

(CHEERING) DEEMA ZEIN: A rousing ovation after his return, Jimmy Kimmel was back on the airwaves with an 18-minute opening monologue discussing his suspension and the fallout.

JIMMY KIMMEL: I'm not sure who had a weirder 48 hours, me or the CEO of Tylenol.

(LAUGHTER) DEEMA ZEIN: Kimmel directly addressed his comments last week about the suspect arrested for the assassination of conservative activist Charlie Kirk.

JIMMY KIMMEL: You understand that it was never my intention to make light of the murder of a young man.

I don't... (APPLAUSE) JIMMY KIMMEL: But I understand that, to some, that felt either ill-timed or unclear, or maybe both.

And for those who think I did point a finger, I get why you're upset.

If the situation was reversed, there's a good chance I'd have felt the same way.

DEEMA ZEIN: Kimmel made a strong defense for free speech throughout the monologue.

JIMMY KIMMEL: This show is not important.

What is important is that we get to live in a country that allows us to have a show like this.

(CHEERING) DEEMA ZEIN: He even took jabs at the president.

JIMMY KIMMEL: You almost have to feel sorry for him.

He tried his best to cancel me.

Instead, he forced millions of people to watch the show.

(LAUGHTER) JIMMY KIMMEL: That backfired bigly.

(LAUGHTER) JIMMY KIMMEL: He might have to release the Epstein files to distract us from this now.

(CHEERING) DEEMA ZEIN: Before Kimmel was back on the air, the president made clear he did not favor the return.

On TRUTH Social last night, Trump called Kimmel "another arm of the DNC."

And he warned: "I think we're going to test ABC out on this.

Let's see how we do.

Last time I went after them, they gave me $16 million."

The president's sentiments were echoed by the chairman of the FCC, Brendan Carr.

Posting on X, Carr said: "Democrats just keep digging themselves a deeper and deeper hole on Kimmel.

We need to keep empowering local TV stations to serve their communities of license."

For Charlie Kirk's friend and executive producer of his podcast, Kimmel's comments about the shooter were - - quote -- "not good enough."

Andrew Kolvet posted on X that Kimmel should apologize for lying about the shooter.

But, over the last week, some conservative influencers and lawmakers have stressed Kimmel's suspension was treading in dangerous territory.

Senate Majority Leader John Thune today: SEN.

JOHN THUNE (R-SD): A coercive use of government shouldn't be something that is used.

This isn't an area that I think the FCC ought to be wandering into.

DEEMA ZEIN: Yesterday, right-leaning podcaster Joe Rogan warned those who might support Kimmel's suspension.

JOE ROGAN, Host, "The Joe Rogan Experience": You're crazy for supporting this, because this will be used on you.

DEEMA ZEIN: For his part, Kimmel thanked some of his usual critics who took issue with his suspension.

JIMMY KIMMEL: It takes courage for them to speak out against this administration.

And they did, and they deserve credit for it.

DEEMA ZEIN: While the show is back on, on most ABC stations, broadcasters Nexstar and Sinclair, who combined operate almost 60 local ABC stations, have said they will continue to preempt the show.

For the "PBS News Hour," I'm Deema Zein.

GEOFF BENNETT: And still to come on the "News Hour": Senator Chuck Schumer on negotiations to end a government shutdown; Judy Woodruff travels to Northern Ireland to explore what the U.S.

can learn from how the peace has been kept since the Troubles; and the leader of the UNCF discusses a donation that could have a big impact on historically Black colleges and universities.

The federal government is heading toward a shutdown one week from now with no potential solution in sight.

President Trump canceled a planned meeting with Democratic congressional leaders, Chuck Schumer and Hakeem Jeffries, saying what they're asking for in negotiations is unserious and ridiculous.

Senator Schumer joins us now from New York.

It's good to see you, sir.

So, why do you think President Trump canceled this meeting just a day after you announced it?

And is there a path forward absent direct negotiation with him?

SEN.

CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): Well, we hope there's a path forward to avoid this Trump shutdown.

We have been trying for a long time to sit down, first with the Republican leaders, Speaker Johnson and John Thune, and they wouldn't sit down with us.

And we wondered why.

And then it came out clearly two weeks ago.

Trump said, we don't need the Democrats.

We can do it on our own.

Now, obviously, he doesn't know his math.

You need 60 votes in the Senate.

There are only 53 Republicans.

So, of course, he should be sitting down.

And that's what -- he is derelict in his duty as president.

He should be sitting down with us.

He said he would.

Jeffries and I requested that we sit down together.

They called us up and said Thursday 3:00.

And then yesterday, he canceled it.

And he said -- yes, he said our proposals are ridiculous and radical.

Well, they're not radical at all.

To prevent the average American who is on ACA's health care bill from going up $5,000 a year is not radical.

To try to keep so many rural hospitals which are in danger of closing is not radical.

These are things the American people are totally on our side.

The AC -- the big, the so-called BBB, Big Beautiful Bill, which is a big ugly bill, is -- Americans don't like it; 68 percent of Americans don't like it, just about every Democrat, two-thirds -- up to two-thirds or three-quarters of independents, depending on which poll you look at, and even a third of Republicans.

So, of course, he should sit down with us.

And let me say one more thing on this, Geoff.

He's derelict.

When I was majority leader for the four years, we never had a shutdown because I sat down with the Republican leader and we came to an agreement.

This president is just -- he's not up to being president if he can't sit down and negotiate with the two Democratic leaders.

GEOFF BENNETT: So if Republicans refuse to agree to restore cuts to health care and Medicaid funding, would Democrats be willing to let a shutdown happen?

SEN.

CHUCK SCHUMER: Look, I hope it doesn't come to that.

We're on our front foot in three ways with the American people on this.

First, the Republicans control the presidency, the Senate, and the House.

So the average American's going to say, they're in charge, they got to get this done.

Second, when they -- when the American people hear that they won't even negotiate with us, they're appalled.

And the data we have shown shows that, when people are asked if Republicans won't even sit down and negotiate with Democrats, 59 percent blame Trump for the shutdown and only 31 percent blame Democrats.

But, finally and most importantly, we're trying to get things done that the American people want us to get done.

And so I hope it won't come to that.

I hope Trump will come to his senses.

I hope other Republicans will quietly or otherwise whisper to him that this is not -- it's just not what a president should do.

It's not how the government should function.

GEOFF BENNETT: In March of 2025, you joined several Democrats in voting to avoid a shutdown.

And you said on this program at the time that, as bad as that spending bill was -- this is a quote -- "A shutdown would be 15, 20 times worse."

What's different this time around?

SEN.

CHUCK SCHUMER: Three things are different.

One, we have seen how bad and the American people have seen how bad Trump's policies are.

They are just -- people don't -- are saying that Trump is not doing anything he wants.

They're angry with Trump because of higher costs.

Some of it's the tariffs.

Some of it's what he did with electric rates, but a lot of it is due to health care.

So that's a lot different than it was then.

Second, they have shown that they're willing to go around the law if we don't stop them from that.

And they have had these rescissions, they have had these impoundments, and they have just illegally in certain ways not funded the government.

And that's even without a shutdown.

And, third, we Democrats are united now.

We are totally united in saying, we want to sit down, we want to negotiate.

We're not going to get everything we want, they're not going to get everything they want, but to help deal with the chaos in health care caused by this big so-called beautiful bill.

GEOFF BENNETT: And to what degree are you feeling pressure from Democrats who say that elected leaders should hold firm and fight?

SEN.

CHUCK SCHUMER: Look, the bottom line is, the majority of -- overwhelming majority of Democrats, both House and Senate, are united on what we -- on the fact that health care's a mess and we have to fix it.

And my caucus and I believe the House caucus is just appalled that the Republicans won't even sit down and negotiate with us.

So it's not pressure from one group or another.

It's sort of a universal feeling that what they're doing is totally, totally derelict.

And if there is a shutdown, it's going to be a Trump shutdown on their shoulders.

Who doesn't sit down and try to talk and work this out?

Only people who don't really know how to be a president.

We will sit down anywhere with him, Geoff.

We will go to a golf course and sit down with him.

We will do anything to try and get some -- we will go anywhere, rather, to try and sit down and come up with an agreement.

We're going to fight for health care, of course, in that.

But they're just totally derelict, Trump is, in his responsibilities.

GEOFF BENNETT: If... SEN.

CHUCK SCHUMER: And the American people know it, and they will know that, if God forbid there's a shutdown, it's a Trump shutdown, because he won't even talk to us.

GEOFF BENNETT: If a shutdown occurs, what direct consequences should the American public expect?

SEN.

CHUCK SCHUMER: Well, look, that will be -- again, we hope we can avoid a shutdown.

We hope that better heads will prevail.

But we will fight tooth and nail if they try to use the shutdown to hurt the American people.

But that's why we want to avoid it.

And that's what we're doing, everything we can to avoid it right now.

And, hopefully, Trump in the next few days will come to his senses.

GEOFF BENNETT: One of the questions I have had for you, and I will use this occasion to ask it, Democrats are outraged by what they see as President Trump's abuse of power.

But has the way he's wielded power made you rethink how Democrats should govern if you regain the White House, given the tools, the expanded executive authority, and the approach that he will have left behind?

SEN.

CHUCK SCHUMER: Well, look, he's done so much damage in so -- every day, it's something else.

I mean, what they're trying to do, what Brendan Carr is trying to do -- and thank God Jimmy camel is back on the air -- is just so un-American.

The First Amendment, for instance, is the core of things.

And what Trump has tried to do is just make the government -- shut down any opposition to him in so many different ways.

And I think we Democrats, should we get back power -- and the chances are increasing that we will because there's such negativity towards Trump and because people know we're fighting for them -- we are going to have to undo a lot of the bad things that Trump did.

GEOFF BENNETT: But is there any thought about what a Democratic inverse would be to all that Trump has done and likely will do in the remaining three years?

SEN.

CHUCK SCHUMER: Well, we're going to have so -- if -- when we get back in -- even in 2026 -- and, as I said, the odds are looking better and better that we can retake the House and retake the Senate -- there are going to be so many different things to do.

And we will figure out the best way to get each one done.

GEOFF BENNETT: Senate Democratic Leader Chuck Schumer, we hope you will join us back on this program as we get closer to October 1.

Thanks for your time, sir.

SEN.

CHUCK SCHUMER: Thank you for having me, Geoff.

Appreciate it very much.

GEOFF BENNETT: The U.S.

Military Academy at West Point is facing a lawsuit that claims it's violating the First Amendment.

The suit, filed by its own law professor, Tim Bakken, alleges the academy is banning professors from expressing opinions in the classroom and demanding they seek approval to speak publicly.

Bakken, who is the longest-serving law professor in West Point's history, says this crackdown undermines free speech and academic freedom.

He's now seeking class action status on behalf of his fellow faculty.

Tim Bakken joins us now in an exclusive interview.

He is in New York City.

Thank you for being with us.

TIM BAKKEN, Law Professor, United States Military Academy at West Point: You're welcome.

Thanks, Geoff.

GEOFF BENNETT: Professor Bakken, you have argued that West Point went beyond what President Trump and the Pentagon directed on issues of diversity, race, and gender, imposing restrictions that were never actually required.

What exactly did West Point do that in your view crosses the line?

TIM BAKKEN: My focus is on a regulation that West Point created in February of this year that requires professors, if they're naming their employer, they indicate who they work for, then they have to seek approval of department heads at West Point.

To me, that's contrary to the notion of freedom of expression.

In fact, professors are hired specifically to teach, speak, and write according to their conscience.

And if they have to submit what they're speaking or writing or teaching about to someone else, then we wouldn't really know what they truly believe and, as a result, people would trust each other less and, certainly, from the perspective of anybody who's a teacher, we'd have less knowledge produced both in the classroom and outside of the classroom in the public arena.

And that's the least of what we want from our public servants, our public employees, and certainly our public teachers.

GEOFF BENNETT: Tell me more about that, because the lawsuit says that West Point is barring professors from expressing their opinions in class.

Give us a specific example where you felt silenced or unable to teach effectively under this policy.

TIM BAKKEN: In my example, for instance, I wouldn't be able to opine on the value of a majority opinion of the Supreme Court or question a dissenting opinion of the Supreme Court if, in my opinion, those majority or dissenting opinions were right or wrong.

My opinion, according to the application of this regulation at West Point, would be invalid, and, therefore, I wouldn't be able to share what I know about that case.

And, in fact, everybody would be lesser for it, because knowledge certainly wouldn't be progressing.

And the cadets at West Point and students anywhere else wouldn't have the opportunity to question Supreme Court decisions or government decisions elsewhere.

GEOFF BENNETT: On the larger point, I'm sure there are people watching this discussion who would ask, would make the point that West Point is a military academy.

The president is commander in chief.

If the commander in chief can dictate what's taught and how it's taught, why shouldn't West Point have the authority to create mechanisms to enforce that executive order?

TIM BAKKEN: The military is not all-encompassing.

In fact, like military officers, I have sworn an oath to the Constitution, which includes protecting the First Amendment rights of everyone.

It's sometimes thought that employer can dictate what employees speak about or write about, but the Supreme Court has noted that, with regard to academic freedom, there's a special constitutional niche for college teachers.

That niche is necessary to prevent overbearing and unconstitutional prior restraints on expression, so that there can be at least one place in American society where everybody can go and speak freely.

Not everybody will agree with what a college teacher says, but that's not the point.

The point is that what's most important is that we have a place to express ourselves.

And in those places, when young people, for example, professors at West Point teach the future generals of the United States, those people will learn from the professors, and when they go on and be successful in their careers, including leading our country in wars, we will be more confident that they know the critical points that are necessary to win those wars.

We have had some difficulty in that in the past generations, and I think one of the reasons is that we haven't been able to speak freely.

And, certainly, in the military, our officers have not been able to speak freely.

And I hope, from what I'm trying to do and from what other people want to do with regard to the preservation of the First Amendment, no prior restraints on what we're speaking about, we can encourage military officers to speak up and tell more about what they believe is necessary to win wars.

GEOFF BENNETT: You're seeking class action status, as we mentioned, on behalf of more than 100 faculty members.

Have colleagues signaled their support either privately or publicly?

TIM BAKKEN: One of the great difficulties of -- in society or any institution -- and I'm not speaking about a military academy necessarily or any organization -- is that when people are not free to speak and when they have to run their ideas through the person in charge, then they're less likely to speak.

And for those people who do speak, they're less likely to be able to connect with other people, and knowledge is lost.

With regard to trying to seek a legal remedy in this instance, the main point is that everybody in this kind of position has the same interests, whether it's in a private organization or a public organization, but especially college.

The interest is in speaking and teaching and writing according to your conscience.

And, if you can't do that, then everybody has a shared value in trying to ensure that we can make some changes and go about deciding how to do that, and do it effectively.

GEOFF BENNETT: Our team reached out to West Point for comment, and the U.S.

Military Academy Public Affairs Office said only: "We are aware of the lawsuit filed Monday.

Respecting the rule of law, we do not discuss ongoing litigation."

In your view, what does success in this lawsuit look like for academic freedom, not just at West Point, but other service academies?

TIM BAKKEN: I would include, Geoff, not only service academies, but colleges around the country, as well as any other organization that is having difficulty with freedom of expression, but especially at colleges.

Sometimes, we forget that academic freedom is a niche within the U.S.

Constitution.

And the reason that it's a niche there, the reason that it's protected is so that people who have dedicated themselves to speaking and teaching and writing will have the opportunity to speak according to their conscience.

That's the essence of the First Amendment, speaking according to our conscience.

It's difficult to imagine any greater value in our Constitution.

I'm encouraging everyone to think about that and to understand, even if we disagree about a position or that position or a government position, in the end, the most important thing is to be able to speak according to our conscience and disagree with everybody.

That doesn't mean that there won't be hurt feelings sometimes, but the point is that we have to have that opportunity to speak, or we can't advance as a society, as an institution, and our knowledge will be a whole lot less if we're disabled by prior restraint of our speaking, if we're subject to the approval of someone else before we speak or write or teach.

GEOFF BENNETT: West Point Law Professor Tim Bakken, thank you, sir, for your time.

We appreciate it.

TIM BAKKEN: You're welcome.

GEOFF BENNETT: In a recent report, Judy Woodruff explored the history of violence in Northern Ireland as a warning to our own country about how quickly identity-based conflicts can spiral out of control.

Tonight, she returns to Belfast with a look at efforts to bridge the deep divisions that remain there decades after that conflict officially ended.

It's part of her ongoing series, America at a Crossroads.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Opening early each morning on Belfast's Lanark Way, this peace gate, a symbol of ongoing separation between Catholic and Protestant neighborhoods, allowing easy passage between the Shankill Road, representing Protestant loyalty to Britain, and the Falls Road, representing Catholic Republicans and their long fight for independence.

The summer months are cool, but tense in Northern Ireland, when Protestants march through Belfast on Saturdays.

In mid-July, they light huge bonfires to mark long-ago British victories over the Irish, antagonizing their Catholic Republican neighbors.

In August, Catholics take their turn, marking the Feast of the Assumption and the internment of prisoners without trial during the Troubles.

ALAN WAITE, Founder, R City: There was a two-day running gun battle with the Republicans... JUDY WOODRUFF: Running gun battle.

ALAN WAITE: ... in West Belfast and the British army.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Right around here, right where we are?

ALAN WAITE: Right around -- right where we are.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Alan Waite grew up during the Troubles in Highfield Estate, a working-class Protestant neighborhood in West Belfast.

ALAN WAITE: We still live in a divided community.

And we're still.. JUDY WOODRUFF: It's still as divided as it was?

ALAN WAITE: Just not as divided, but in terms of where we live and in terms of how we go to school and spend our time, it's still very much you do your stuff on your side of the wall and we will do ours on the other side of the wall.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Pierce McConnell grew up on the other side of that wall.

PIERCE MCCONNELL, Program Manager, R City: So, it defines a lot in terms of a young person's upbringing, their culture, what they believe in.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Born in 1997, a year before the Good Friday Agreement, he was raised in the Ardoyne, a mostly Catholic working-class neighborhood less than two miles from Highfield.

PIERCE MCCONNELL: You're constantly told, do not go there, do not engage with those people, do not do this.

So then automatically you're curious, but you're also -- there's a bit of a fear.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Twenty-seven years after the signing of the Good Friday Agreement, the political accord that mainly ended the violence, many neighborhoods, communities and the vast majority of schools here in Northern Ireland remain divided by identity.

But a number of groups are working across that divide to try to maintain the peace and build a more integrated future.

More than a decade ago, Alan Waite founded R City to integrate young people from single-identity neighborhoods like Highfield and Ardoyne.

As early as age 12, they begin building friendships across the divide at its community center, traveling to the beach for summer camp.

MAN: We like to take the young people out of their community, out of their surrounding environment.

JUDY WOODRUFF: And even overseas to places like South Africa, where they learn about conflicts beyond their own borders.

Alan Waite says it's about trying to break the generational cycle here.

ALAN WAITE: Unfortunately, when you're brought up, you're brought up in a community, you're brought up in a family who's maybe staunch and pass a lot of their values and a lot of their beliefs to the younger generation below them.

And, therefore, if you're only hearing the stories that's around you, then you're getting the same thoughts and feelings that those older generation had many years ago.

PADRAIG GREEN, Member, R City: My grandfather was really forceful on, don't go into areas.

They're bad people.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Padraig Green is 17 years old and grew up in the Ardoyne, the Catholic enclave.

He joined R City when he was 13 and says through friends he's learned about the Protestant traditions he once feared.

PADRAIG GREEN: So I got to learn more about their culture, but also not only that.

I also got to learn that they are actually just human, they're just like us.

They live more or less the same life, like same houses, same families, stuff like that there.

DARCY MONTGOMERY, Member, R City: People my age care about Catholics and Protestants, but they weren't allowed to witness what actually properly happened.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Seventeen-year-old Darcy Montgomery grew up in Highfield, the Protestant neighborhood.

Through R City, she's become friends with more Catholics, but she says change is slow here.

DARCY MONTGOMERY: These peace walls, they shouldn't still be up.

Why would they need to be up?

But then, if you try to take them down, there would be fighting.

So there needs to be a problem with the fighting going on and with the conflict between the two communities.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Pierce McConnell is now the program manager at R City, but was also part of its inaugural class.

He says they're trying to build the shared space that society still hasn't, where, over many years, young people can build relationships stronger than the divisions of the past.

PIERCE MCCONNELL: If you look at every relationship, positive relationship you have in your life, it probably came through having something with longevity in it.

So your friends come through your job that you have maybe been in a long time, your school that you went to, your university, a sport you played, a hobby you had.

You need that time spent together.

You need to build those relationships and build that understanding.

MONICA MCWILLIAMS, Co-Founder, Northern Ireland Women's Coalition: Most importantly, they're speaking to each other for other sides, where, in my day, I never had that opportunity.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Monica McWilliams was 14 when the Troubles in Northern Ireland broke out.

MONICA MCWILLIAMS: This is also the first day of the peace talks.

JUDY WOODRUFF: She was 44 when she signed the Good Friday Agreement after co-founding the Northern Ireland Women's Coalition and being elected to the multiparty negotiations.

A trailblazer for women's rights, she has since worked around the world on peace-building efforts and says grassroots efforts like R City are a key feature.

MONICA MCWILLIAMS: Politicians think, we were elected, so we're the only people who can speak as representatives.

Uh-uh.

The people on the ground are participating every single day as much as you are in politics.

It might be small-P politics, but every single thing they're doing is political.

And that's my message to those who are losing faith in other parts, particularly in the States.

They say, what difference can we make?

If you get together, if you're a collective, if you get organized, information, education, agitation, and it works.

But do not disparage the politicians either, because you have to be in the system to change the system.

JOE KENNEDY, Former Special Envoy to Northern Ireland: They have recognized that you can't ask people to compromise completely on who they are.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Former Democratic Congressman Joe Kennedy served as special envoy to Northern Ireland under the Biden administration, and he says there's another lesson for Americans about identity and politics.

JOE KENNEDY: A Protestant shouldn't tell a Catholic in Northern Ireland they can't be Catholic.

A Catholic can't tell a Protestant, you can't be Protestant.

A nationalist can't tell a unionist not to stay true to their loyalties and vice versa.

Those are ingrained traits as to the identities of who those folks are.

Yet they have found a way to try to build a community on top of that, recognizing that an essential way for peaceful coexistence to make sure that my kid has a healthy and safe and vibrant future is to make sure that your child does as well.

ALAN WAITE: The main thing for us is that we build a relationship so strong that, when it comes to talking about hot topics, more importantly is our relationship, rather than the topic, whether it be the color of the flag on top of the city hall, or maybe an Irish language speaking act.

Look, we can have debates about that, but what's more important is what we have got, what me and you have as friends.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Today, older generations marvel at how much progress society has made since the Troubles, when they grew up.

For young people like Padraig Green and Darcy Montgomery, there's so much more to be done.

Twenty years from now, what do you want Northern Ireland to be like?

DARCY MONTGOMERY: I would like there to be more mixed schools, so Protestant and Catholic schools learning the same thing.

PADRAIG GREEN: I would love there to be no peace gates, no peace walls, just a completely integrated community, like, nationwide.

JUDY WOODRUFF: But back on Lanark Way, each evening, the peace gate, painted to commemorate the 25th anniversary of the Good Friday Agreement, closes again, until tomorrow.

For the "PBS News Hour," I'm Judy Woodruff in Belfast, Northern Ireland.

GEOFF BENNETT: The UNCF has just received a landmark $70 million gift from philanthropist MacKenzie Scott in what amounts to one of her largest gifts ever.

The money will be used to bolster the endowments of historically Black colleges and universities, helping to close longstanding gaps in resources and financial stability.

It's part of a billion-dollar capital campaign that UNCF is leading to ensure that HBCUs can thrive well into the future.

For more on what this gift means and the broader outlook for HBCUs, we're joined now by Dr.

Michael Lomax, UNCF president and CEO.

It's always great to see you, sir.

So, let's start with the basics.

This is a $70 million gift, a historic gift.

How will the money be used?

And what immediate impact will students at HBCUs see?

MICHAEL LOMAX, President and CEO, United Negro College Fund: Yes, it is a $70 million gift, and it follows on a $10 million gift, which MacKenzie Scott made to UNCF five years ago during the early days of the pandemic.

It's an opportunity for us to try to close the endowment gap between HBCUs and their non-HBCU peers.

Right now, HBCUs, if you put all 101 of them together, their total endowments would probably be in the $6 billion range, right?

And that's to serve 250,000 students.

And there are PWIs in this country, non-HBCUs, which have $6 billion of their own in their endowment.

So we're way behind on the wealth gap if the -- if you're gauging wealth by what the size of your endowment is.

GEOFF BENNETT: PWIs meaning predominantly white institutions.

Beyond the dollars themselves, how do you plan to leverage this gift in your messaging, in your partnerships to attract more donors and more institutional support?

MICHAEL LOMAX: We're trying to make sure that people understand that we're a good bet and that their funds will be very well used, and gifts like this will help tell that story.

But we're also trying to tell people just how important this gift is for the -- in the case of UNCF, we have 50,000 students attending the 37 institutions that we represent.

And we really just don't have enough support to help those students get to, through college and onto careers without taking out tremendous debt.

So scholarships are very important for us.

It's what we're best known for.

And this -- these endowments will help our institutions cover more of the costs of their students, of faculty, of facilities, and make them less reliant on debt to borrow, to get those things done, or for their students to borrow and pay their tuition.

GEOFF BENNETT: At the same time, there can be this concern around large philanthropic gifts, in that they unintentionally let federal and state governments off the hook.

So how will UNCF make sure that philanthropy doesn't become the substitute for longer-term structural support provided by state and federal governments?

MICHAEL LOMAX: Well, right now, philanthropy is not going to be leading what the federal government does.

The real question is, in my mind, whether philanthropy is going to raise the bar on the amount and size of the gifts that they make available to HBCUs.

I have been doing this job for 21 years, and we didn't start receiving gifts for the operations of our schools or unrestricted gifts for them in the 10-plus-million-dollar category until five years ago.

Since then, UNCF, which receives no federal funding, has raised over $1.3 billion.

And we have used those dollars to strengthen and support our private historically Black colleges and universities.

At the same time, the federal government has -- gave billions of dollars of additional support to HBCUs during the pandemic.

And, as recently as last week, the Department of Education released over 435 million additional dollars to HBCUs.

So we believe that, right now, HBCUs are recognized as an extraordinary value in American higher education, accessible to all, and that we're really showing what you can do to support low-income students go to and through college.

And we believe the federal government's going to step up.

When we announced this gift this week, one of our individual institutions, Huston-Tillotson University, and their president, Melva Wallace, announced a $150 million gift from a Texas foundation, the Moody Foundation.

I don't think in my entire time as president of UNCF I have seen a gift of that size and magnitude to an individual private college.

Last year, Michael Bloomberg gave $175 million to HBCU medical schools.

So we're seeing good signs of increased philanthropic support.

I think MacKenzie Scott is showing what individual donors can do to support institutions that have been doing the work with too few resources in the past.

GEOFF BENNETT: Well, take me back to that moment.

What was your reaction when you got the phone call about this $70 million gift?

MICHAEL LOMAX: I got a call with one of MacKenzie Scott's representatives.

And they said: "This time, we believe in what you're doing.

We're going to give you a gift.

You will be able to announce it immediately and you can say it came from us."

And then I said: "Oh, by the way, what's the amount of the gift?"

And the individual said $70 million.

Well, uncharacteristically, I was speechless and taken aback and very excited and profuse in my gratitude, as I remain today.

I have been doing this work for a long time.

And I have asked a lot of people for support.

But this is one of the rare instances when someone I don't know reaches out to me as the CEO of UNCF and says: "We have been watching what you do.

We respect what you do.

We value what you do.

And we want to contribute to what you do and we want you to decide how those funds are used."

MacKenzie Scott is rewriting the book on individual philanthropy and she's making a huge difference.

And what I say today is, God bless MacKenzie Scott and thank you.

GEOFF BENNETT: Dr.

Michael Lomax, UNCF president and CEO, great to see you, and always good to speak with you, sir.

Be well.

MICHAEL LOMAX: Thank you.

Have a great day.

GEOFF BENNETT: And there is much more online, where we continue to update one of our top stories.

That's the deadly shooting at an ICE facility in Texas.

You can see the latest at PBS.org/NewsHour.

And that is the "News Hour" for tonight.

I'm Geoff Bennett.

For all of us here at the "PBS News Hour," thanks for spending part of your evening with us.