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You know at the end of last week's show the topic started emerging and we said man we already have a lot of topics for this Thursday and we do and we're gonna get into them in just a moment but first let's meet the panelists starting with the media veteran herself Wendy Weise from the Post-Dispatch one of our founders Bill McClellan also from the Post and STL today.com Joe Holleman and from the St.

Louis American we welcome as always Alvin Reid we're starting with you Wendy we just found a I don't think we had been five across the parking lot walked across the parking lot of last week when we read that the Tourism Commission just actually Sam Page the County Executive for St.

Louis County decided to appoint the former CEO of Explorer St.

Louis the tourism group as it was then known to the st.

Louis Tourism Commission along with former lawmaker and County Councilman Rochelle Walton Gray but what really had people scratching their heads was just a couple of years ago there was like a $500,000 buyout for Ms.

Radcliffe and she got a car and she left this organization which kind of jet jettisoned her and now she'll be making policy kind of overseeing the new guy who took her place Brad Dean I don't think that's too fair to him do you I just kind of think of it as I think of it is just because I really did and I admitted this a little bit earlier to you all that I thought it was an onion I think it was an onion story because I think that Sam Page Sam Page is obviously we have established the fact he's an anesthesiologist so he's a lot smarter than probably anybody at this table in terms of academics okay that's another topic that's another topic for another time however he's not going to have a press conference like an NFL style press conference where he you know lets people have it I think these these little breadcrumbs are gonna be dropping from now until he officially leaves office I really do because she was replaced and we had talked about Kitty Radcliffe in her in that position for years as I recall projects were you know they they ran so far over budget there were all sorts of problems and then to see that she was getting a 500 that that raised enough eyebrows but for for Sam Page to say that she brings all of this experience when she was as you say jettisoned for not doing the job effectively I think that's I think that's his sort of way of saying you ain't seen nothing yet folks well I kind of like it it's like you know you know what the president is leaving office and everybody gets pardoned and whatnot you say what is that all about well this is Sam Page saying like you know what now I'm gonna point Kitty but I'm a Rochelle Walton Gray just I'm just doing it to just irritate people which I definitely understand well because no no no it's not and I get it human I get it that's human nature and by the way there's nothing to say that they can't do the job that they're being asked to do but it was not it's not coincident coincidence that he picked these two people I wonder about the motivation of Kitty Radcliffe I mean you know they bounced her out of the job and I think you just a job that's non-compensatory, you don't get paid for it why in the world would she even want to do that?

I'm with Alvin here I don't see why you guys are having such a hard time figuring this out I'm Sam Page there's nothing you can do to me I don't have to ask the voters anymore so I can pay off a political favor because the Walton family has always supported Sam Page so that takes care of that and boy this will get some people's goat and I'll put Kitty Radcliffe on it.

Why would she want to come on though?

Because now she gets to lord over the guy that did her part.

It's so unfair to the new guy and he may be leaving now thanks to Sam Page because who wants to work for your former boss I mean that makes no sense Well she's only one vote.

I think what happened here is that you know since she left the Regional Sports Authority and Explore St.

Louis merged and it was done by people like Steve O'Loughlin who was the chair of the Tourism Commission with the governor Mike Kehoe and Brad Dean and they didn't include Sam Page and I think he's just upset that he wasn't included.

So you're saying it's kind of petty revenge.

Yes but what we need is to boost tourism and put people who know tourism now maybe Kitty Kitty knows it.

Well she wasn't filling rooms that's why we jettisoned her.

Rochelle Walton Gray has no experience that I know of in tourism.

But now Charlie if you go back over the last 20, 30 years of the people who've been on that board you could say that probably about half the people that have been on the tourism board.

And I thought the question was why would he do it or what it is you know I mean is it a bad move?

It absolutely is a bad move.

Nobody's disagreeing with that.

What you ask is why did he do it?

To be petty.

And then why would someone I mean why would a person with any class take that job?

Why would anyone with none the less none the less take that job?

It's not a matter of class.

It's total class.

You know you're not getting paid to do it.

Right.

No it's not about the money it's not about anything.

It's like what I always say like you cannot throw enough chains and throw in a Mississippi River for people from St.

Louis.

They always will bubble up and the first chance they get they say uh-huh you thought I was done didn't you?

I'm sorry to hear that.

But it might be true.

Bill I want to ask you speaking of money and St.

Louis.

The mayor and others are trying to get a new airport director because Rhonda Hamnabroogie the current one actually she just retired so we have an interim and you know there's gonna be like a three billion dollar renovation of Lambert Field.

So they need someone who's really outstanding and in the contract in the request for proposals to try and hire people the city has said that the salary will be between $400 ,000 and $650,000 a year.

Well it is 2026.

That's an important job.

Isn't that worth it?

Well I don't know what the marketplace is for these people but we have a tendency to overpay people they're bringing in.

Like with the police chief you know John Hayden the old chief was making like $160 ,000.

So we bring in a new chief pay him $283,000.

And now for the airport director the old one was making $300,000 and the newspaper story said that we have no shortage of applicants, qualified applicants.

Well I would think that you start out with the old person's salary and say who can we get for $300,000 and if you don't have anybody you like maybe you raise it up but this idea that we're gonna pay him right up the get-go a lot more I don't think it's smart.

But we have to distinguish the fact that Chief Tracy that $100,000 of the $280 ,000 that you spoke of that was sort of part of a package with the security deal.

Right and somebody else was paying that.

But it was part of the deal where we didn't give it to John Hayden.

Exactly.

Now wait a minute if I remember correctly he took the job and then that money came along.

So he signed to be the chief of police in St.

Louis for whatever that amount of money was $183,000.

I think when you like hire a new baseball manager or a football coach they're coming in with the expectation they're gonna make more than the person that they're replacing.

Now how much more I don't know.

If they thought that they could get the airport director from you know JFK or LaGuardia but that person wanted $650,000 then maybe that's what you pay them.

I'm not saying that whoever you bring in should make that much but that window between $400,000 and $650,000 doesn't mean that you have to pay this person $650,000.

So I don't have a problem jumping from whatever it was to $450,000.

I did check the salaries of the Pittsburgh airport director and the Baltimore and one is making about $300,000 the other is making $600,000.

Which was which?

I think Baltimore was $300,000 I think Pittsburgh was higher.

I don't know maybe jumping to $600,000 I thought was a little exorbitant.

I can see moving it up to $450 ,000 or whatever.

That's what I'm saying.

The thing I actually did like about it was no longer tying it to the term of a mayor.

Agreed.

I thought that was the best part of the bill.

Because that would to me be something that if I'm living in another city it's like okay this mayor only has two and a half years left.

What if they lose and I got to go?

I would want to be able to sign a five-year contract regardless of who is the mayor.

Joe what if you get another Keisha Scarlett or a Millicent Borshade and you want to get rid of that person?

Well but now okay that's just one of those things that you can't Once again not to make another sports analogy but if you hire a bad coach it is like they're going to come for a one-year contract or they're going to come for less money.

I understand that but what happens if the person you hire comes and everyone's saying oh this is the best thing since sliced bread this guy really knows airports and then it doesn't work out.

How do you get rid of them if you don't have a guarantee?

There's probably a buyout and a contract.

You fire them and you live with it.

You fire them and you live with it and you go to court.

But I mean first of all do a better job hiring than the St.

Louis school board did.

These are national searches and you get people who interview well.

Right.

And sometimes then they come here and they don't work out.

Okay I've just as one person that worked at different places not in St.

Louis I always say like before I throw that stone so like what if they said like well you're just hiring people that interview well.

So like no I was pretty damn good at what I did.

So I mean that's how I got different jobs.

My first thought was Rhonda Homne-Brugge for that window to expand by potentially $250,000 I would be a little.

But I'm not saying.

I'd be a little reflective.

No you have to get that $650,000 you have to like have turned you know.

Like Heathrow.

Yeah right.

I just think there's a tendency in America to pay the top person too much and the workers not enough.

Well I'll give you that.

Rhonda who I thought did a pretty good job.

She did.

She was local.

Right.

And then before her I think was Dick Rabko and he was pretty good too.

He was an interim director.

I thought he was spirit.

Dick Rabko was spirit.

I thought Rhonda came from someplace else too.

She was American Airlines.

Was she not?

Yeah but was she in Dallas?

I think she was from Missouri.

Originally from Missouri but she had other.

Well Joe before we get to our next topic I know one of our most loyal viewers needs a good shout out and she's Ginny Schrappen.

I work at.

Bill and I work with Colleen Schrappen the writer at our paper and her mother Ginny Schrappen is a huge fan of the show.

She's always at the Donny Bash's and she's having a few health challenges right now.

So I just wanted to let Ginny I wanted to let you know that everybody here is sending out prayers and positive vibes your way and hope to see you at the next Donny Bash.

Absolutely.

Hey it was in mid-July that you reported that Lisa Clancy a member of the St.

Louis County Council was caught by a St.

Louis County detective lifting a Brian Williams sign from the middle of the median on Wiedown Boulevard and I'll tell you what the police report that was written up is the most thorough police report I have ever seen in my life.

It was I mean he crossed the T's and dot the I's named Persich the detective.

So he he gets this he gets this police report in mid-July finding that the county council member was acting inappropriately and maybe illegally.

You report this week that since then nothing has happened.

You know and I shouldn't be surprised but I always I always get surprised that my first gut feeling was is nobody wants to handle this case.

You know I mean I'll give credit to the police officer for investigating the case doing it you know doing their job you know.

But so but I can imagine nobody wants to take it to the prosecutors.

The persons especially if you're a county police or you're a county prosecutor the council is the one that decides what your budget is.

So nobody wants to get them mad.

Then it got into where the county police department said well we referred it to the Clayton Police Department.

Then Clayton kind of got a little up in arms and said hey wait a minute they don't have the power to refer cases to us.

Clayton didn't want anything to do with it.

So basically as I said was not only the sign disappear the case seems to be disappearing as well.

I've reached out to Ms.

Clancy both right immediately after the incident and then when I wrote this last one and she has declined comment.

Well I mean OK the prosecutor in St.

Louis County do they have a tsk tsk kind of like not law but like they said you need to come into my office.

We need to talk about this.

And could you suggest that like you need to like apologize and maybe this would go away.

But you know you got it.

You got some some some signal of remorse.

So I don't follow up on this.

I mean no one is beyond the law but I'm not saying that you don't lock her up lock her up.

But at the same time it shouldn't just disappear.

And if I'm Dennis Hancock this is the kind of thing that I think Jake Zimmerman should pardon.

I mean you know I mean she was a supporter.

Jake Zimmerman and she was taking the sign of his chief rival out.

And I think Zimmerman should say part of my campaign.

I'm pardoning Lisa.

But this is what I this is genuinely what I don't understand whether it's social media or removing political signs from a cul-de -sac.

You know I just you have if you are in the public eye you have to pretend like there is a camera on you or eyes on you at all times.

This isn't this isn't like this wasn't a PTA cookie.

I mean it wasn't like this is a high stakes.

If you are the county county government and she's a council member and she's pulling that just is such an awful look.

But she's playing the right cards because no one's doing anything in the city of Clayton.

You know I think Lieutenant Corporal Jenny Schwartz told you that we're not going to be issuing warrants on someone else's investigation because then the prosecutor will ask us for questions and what what can we tell him we didn't investigate it.

So the prosecutor in Clayton is Craig Smith of Curtis Hines a law firm that represents a lot of cities.

It could be in his hands or Melissa Price Smith.

Yes.

All those.

All of the above.

We just got to figure out where the what police department is going to take paperwork to whom.

Well somebody needs to take it.

Somebody should be done.

And also there is a six foot by eight foot Brian Williams sign on a lot right there on Kirkwood Road almost in the middle of Kirkwood.

Now I would like to go just in its real doors.

I don't even know if that's legal.

Right.

You know isn't that the point that Sarah was me.

Yeah.

That usually we're screaming for people to remove these political signs.

Just not a particular time after the election.

Right.

Before the election.

Felony.

Well I will lock her up.

Apologize.

You've got an apology to lock her up.

After we discussed this last time I said that if she's in the mood to pick up things off the street she should take on Hanley Road near 64 40 because there's so much litter.

And as self-appointed watchdog Tom Sullivan pointed out about three days later it was cleaned up.

So I don't know who did it but thank you very much.

Alvin I want to ask you about the St.

Louis public schools.

About one year ago we were talking about this court again report where a company got seven million dollars to examine the future of the St.

Louis public schools.

There are 68 buildings right now.

They said about 37 of them should be closed.

We'd be down to 31.

Then the number went down to we'll close 20 not 37.

And now this week they decide we're thinking of closing 14 of the 68.

Well let me ask you this.

Some members of the Board of Education said that they think that this is unfairly affecting African-American communities because the schools where many African-American children are studying are on the closing list.

Do you buy it?

Well I do because anytime you put together a list like that and a certain area no matter where it be is seem like it's targeted for the closings.

Well this is north St.

Louis.

So I would see where the council board members would have a problem with this.

I kind of do too.

Now it's easy for me to try to alleviate the situation.

I would have to sit down and see how many students and where would they go and all that.

But I think a little bit more.

I think they're putting a little bit too much faith in the people that are putting together these plans because why are they like oh this is unfair.

I've never said blah blah blah blah.

You don't review these things before you actually have the board meeting.

That's the part that I don't get because I don't think you're violating any closed meeting statute.

It's just like everybody's like this is the first I've heard of this and that's what's surprising.

On the surface it seems like they just didn't go far enough.

They have a real crisis and they've got to close some schools and it's sad to see any schools close.

But to come up with well we've decided to only close a few it seems like this isn't really going to fix things anyway.

St.

Louis has 68 schools as I mentioned and it's like the sixth largest school district and all the larger school districts have about half the number of schools.

No I agree.

It just has way too many schools and Ness Sandoval has pointed out that between 2000, he's a demographer at SLU, between 2020 and 2024 the black population loss in the city of St.

Louis by percentage was greater than all but one other American city.

African-Americans are fleeing St.

Louis and he didn't even count the tornado victims which is probably another 2,000 families.

But why did it take this long for them to come up with these arguments about this report?

I mean that's the question.

I mean that's I don't have an answer for that.

Because it seems like we it seems like as you said a year or so ago the initial report was released.

Maybe they were kind of waylaid by the tornado.

Well the first report came out and the second of the superintendents to get fired.

That's right.

Oh this is the school board.

Don't forget.

No I understand.

They had one school board member who had moved to California and the school board didn't even know till five months later.

What was his name?

Vowel?

I forget her first name.

I mean they may not be on top of a lot of things.

Well I mean I guess what my whole look at this is is yes I agree and I to an extent sympathize with the board member Harvey, Robert Harvey who said he was worried that it impacted more on black students.

Also part of that is just the odds.

Seventy five percent of the students are black.

So any change you make in that system is going to have more impact on more black students than white students because there are more.

OK.

It's like what wins more horse races.

You know black horses or white horses.

Black horses because there's more black horses running in races.

I didn't know that.

Yeah.

White horses are very rare.

So that's the thing.

They're very active.

Yeah it's great.

Part of his problem was that the gifted schools which there's a higher percentage of white kids in were more or less left untouched.

Right.

And I and that's I think where the problem comes in and where he valid is where his argument is valid.

What I fear though is is we started with people who have no connection say you can cut let's say half the schools 30 something it was really more than half.

Then it comes down we're going to cut 20.

Then a little there's a little complaints and now it's down to 14.

Yeah.

Now there's going to be a little more complaints.

And are we going to end up back in the same place with a number of school buildings and it shouldn't be open.

Well still be an open draining the resources.

Nobody's going to like this.

I think it is.

It is unpleasant.

Nobody likes to see schools close.

But it's sometimes you have to count on your city councils your county boards your school boards to go.

Yeah this is what we have to do when the when the student population has gone from one hundred and fifteen thousand in the 1960s to sixteen thousand today.

And then you're going to close schools.

Well you got to answer the transportation question too.

And that's that's expensive.

Well that's also a question that I don't think they've really overcome and that's helping us yet.

So you close a bunch of schools.

That means kids are going to have to go a little bit farther.

How are they going to get there.

I'm going to go to you to two topics in a row Alvin because you are Mr.

Kirkwood and Kirkwood is in the news.

The paper that Bill and Joe work for pointed out that the city of Kirkwood took twenty two million dollars over the last ten years from its electric utility and they filled potholes.

They paved roads.

They had some money went to the parks.

The Performing Arts Center which I think is a gem was also paid for that.

I don't find huge problems with draining money out of utility if the utility rates were among the lowest in the state.

And they were.

And if these are needed repairs like potholes and streets.

Well Kirkwood is not unusual in that fact.

A lot of municipalities across the country do that.

You have like some cash cow either the electric department or the water department or you have like sports or sports facilities.

That money gets moved around.

I get that.

The problem is they you know we obviously didn't know that there was a deficit at the electric department.

So now the shell game you know fell apart.

So look I'm not the fact that that was going on.

I don't have a problem with it.

But the fact that it got to the point where we were still moving money around there was no money.

Now that's a problem.

They continued once the horse was down on the ground.

Right.

Yeah.

Well running free or running free wherever you know.

But they continued even after they knew there was a problem.

They knew there was this deficit out there.

They continued to prime the pump if you will.

That's the reporting says.

You have a city manager right.

Well yes.

I mean you know like I can understand the mayor and the alderman part time people not really paying attention to this.

But when you have a city manager isn't it his or her job.

Yeah.

Well Russ Haas who is no longer there.

He was one of the ones that retired but was fired.

You know that was another part of this whole story.

But but yeah technically that's why you have a city manager and that's why I think the city St.

Louis would needs a city manager quite frankly.

Now maybe this one didn't work.

It didn't work.

But yeah.

But you know I think it's still a good philosophy you know.

And but at the same time originally and this gentleman named Mark Petty who was also retired but was fired who ran the electric department that those trade wins are starting to kind of change a little bit and say like you know what this really wasn't this guy's fault because of this moving of the money around and all that.

It wasn't like he was just shelling it out.

You know let me ask you this because we're gonna go to letters in just a moment.

But is this the talk of Kirkwood or is this just a talk in the media.

This is talk of Kirkwood.

This is this is people got issues and it showed the last municipal election that the people were not reelected.

So people decided not to run.

We'll see where it goes the next you know round of elections.

But people really aren't happy.

You know because we see our our our.

But was this about keeping utility bills low in some weird way.

It seems like I don't.

But this is just me speaking.

I don't think so.

I think just some some some some things were missed and it became to the calamitous stage before people recognize.

And didn't they build an art center.

Yes.

But the art center pays for itself.

It's part of the debt service.

But leave K-PAC alone.

It's a nice place and it pays for itself.

I love that art.

So it's for itself when it got built.

It's absolutely they take money from the electric department.

No not to build it.

I think it goes toward the debt service.

And I could be right.

To be continued.

Let's go to the old mailbag and see what the viewers had to say about last week's show.

You know Sarah Fenske is right.

In more affluent neighborhoods the majority of students start school ready to learn.

This in turn brings about the high test scores that people think make schools great.

That from Jackie Eifert of St.

Louis.

We also heard from Kevin Walters of St.

Charles who says regarding Wal-Mart drone delivery Bill McClellan said people in St.

Charles said it seems like a nice idea.

I don't recall Mayor Dan Borgmeier or my councilman asking me or any of my neighbors our opinions.

Thank you Kevin.

You can write us care of nine PBS 6 3 1 0 8.

Don't forget those emails Donnie Brooke at nine PBS dot org on social media use hashtag Donnie Brooke STL and wherever you are maybe in Canada like Joe was a couple weeks ago.

Listen to us on your favorite podcast source.

We have a program on the Donnie Brooke YouTube channel.

It's called Last Call where we discuss the topics we couldn't get to in the first 30 or so minutes.

This week we're going to talk about the League of Women Voters getting kicked out of the Thomas Eagleton federal office building.

How would Senator Eagleton feel about that.

Well we'll discuss it on Last Call.

We hope you join us.

That's it for this session.

See you next time.

Donnie Brooke is made possible by the support of the Betsy and Thomas Patterson Foundation and the members of Nine PBS.