AMNA NAWAZ: President Trump has signed an executive order directing the Pentagon to end all programs that encourage diversity, equity and inclusion, known as DEI.

The order says the initiatives undermine military leadership, lethality and force readiness.

Here's Nick Schifrin now on the debate those programs have inspired and what they have tried to do.

WOMAN: Diversity, equity and inclusion is vital to making us a stronger, more unified Navy.

NICK SCHIFRIN: For years, the military has argued diversity makes it stronger.

NARRATOR: The Tuskegee Airmen broke the color barrier.

America's women broke the gender barrier.

NICK SCHIFRIN: For the last five years, initiatives begun under the previous Trump administration and expanded under the Biden administration have argued equity and inclusion builds brotherhood.

MAN: So we understand the value and importance of taking care of people.

NICK SCHIFRIN: And the military has celebrated how it's expanded representation of women and Black and Hispanic service members and leaders.

CHARLES BARBER, Former Director, Navy Diversity, Equity and Inclusion Program: shows that organizations that demonstrate DEI have higher organizational effectiveness and innovation.

HARRY TRUMAN, Former President of the United States: There is no justifiable reason for discrimination.

NICK SCHIFRIN: The military described DEI as a continuation of historic efforts to fight racism, including as one of the first American institutions to integrate.

DONALD TRUMP, President of the United States: Here is a big deal, merit.

Our country is going to be based on merit again.

Can you believe it?

NICK SCHIFRIN: But President Trump has argued diversity efforts are discriminatory and distract from the military's core mission, an argument echoed by now Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth.

PETE HEGSETH, U.S. Defense Secretary: The DEI policies of today are not the same as what happened back then.

They're dividing troops inside formations, causing commanders to walk on eggshells, not putting meritocracy first.

That's the indictment that's made by those serving right now.

NICK SCHIFRIN: In one of his first posts as secretary, Hegseth wrote: "DOD doesn't equal DEI."

President Trump's executive order prohibits the military from promoting -- quote -- "divisive theories," abolishes DEI offices, and gives the secretary of defense 30 days to create detailed guidance.

For perspective, we get two views.

Retired Brigadier General Chris Walker had a 40-year career in the Air Force and was a senior adviser on diversity and inclusion from 2021 to 2023.

He's on the board of advisers of Stand Together Against Racism and Radicalism in the Services.

And Retired Colonel Diane Ryan had a 29-year career in the Army, including as a professor at West Point and the Army War College.

She deployed to Iraq and focused on psychological operations.

She's now an associate dean at Tufts University.

Thanks very much to both of you.

Welcome to the "News Hour."

Chris Walker, the president and his allies have argued that the Department of Defense have spent too much money and time on DEI projects, and that has reduced the lethality and the readiness of the troop.

Do you agree?

BRIG.

GEN. CHRIS WALKER (RET), U.S. Air Force: I absolutely agree.

China is serious about what they're doing.

And every dollar they spend is to be able to not only mitigate our military power, but defeat it.

Any dollars we're spending not trying to keep up with China or surpass China is going to put our troops, our sailors, our Marines, our airmen in mortal danger.

I don't think this country is ready to watch an aircraft carrier sink to the bottom of the sea.

We need to be spending every dollar we have to be able to be so awesome China wouldn't even try it.

NICK SCHIFRIN: Diane Ryan, are these programs a waste of money?

COL. DIANE RYAN (RET.

), U.S. Army: I don't think there are ways to money at all, Nick.

DEI, diversity, equity, inclusion, is part of talent management.

It's about leveraging the talents of all of our people and recognizing the different strengths that people bring to the fight.

It's leader development.

And we can certainly look at how the money is being spent, but I think to say they're all bad and let's put all our money into technology and things that are directly related to the kinetic fight, you forget that all of our fighting is done by people, and we need to invest resources into building those teams.

NICK SCHIFRIN: Chris Walker, there are senior military leaders I have spoken to who believe that some of the criticisms of the DEI efforts are making either women or minorities in the military nervous and that they're turning off people who do want to fight.

What's your response to that?

BRIG.

GEN. CHRIS WALKER (RET): Anybody who really wants to fight isn't going to be turned off by any of that.

Anybody who is what I call a butt kicker -- I say the other word that starts with A -- is not really turned off by any of this, all right?

And to my colleague's comments, quite honestly, being a leader means knowing how to respect people.

And you don't need DEI training for that, OK?

And so I reject all of the what I call propaganda on all of this?

NICK SCHIFRIN: Diane Ryan, respond to that?

Why do you even need DEI?

COL. DIANE RYAN (RET.

): Because people are coming from all different places.

It's a rapidly changing environment.

I would like to look beyond just the training and think about the policies that help people.

And they help people do things that they might not have otherwise been quite as effective doing And a good example of that is uniforms.

So, I fought for 30 years trained in uniforms that were not designed for me, for my body type.

And, in the last 10 years, we have changed that, and we have created helmets for women and body armor for women.

And women are achieving things that they never could have achieved before.

So that's an example of an equitable investment that raises the bar for everybody.

And especially in our deteriorating civility in the United States, I think that setting standards, commanders paying attention to this, measuring it and putting resources to it is a good investment in our people.

NICK SCHIFRIN: In the time we have left, I want to ask both of you about recruiting.

Diane Ryan, do you believe that some of these efforts could impact recruiting?

COL. DIANE RYAN (RET.

): Yes.

I can't tell you how many times someone has come up to me and just made those kinds of assumptions that, if you let your kid go in the military, they're going to be mistreated.

And I think some of the rhetoric that we're hearing over the last couple of weeks would certainly strike fear in me as a parent, worried that my kids are not going to be treated the way they deserve to be treated, if we allow this kind of rhetoric to persist.

NICK SCHIFRIN: Chris Walker, are you worried about any of these efforts affecting military recruiting?

BRIG.

GEN. CHRIS WALKER (RET): I have heard the opposite.

Over the last four years, I have actually heard from literally hundreds of vets who say that they don't want their kids going into the military now because it's not about military anymore.

Now I'm hearing from youngsters and parents saying, yes, now I will let my kids go in.

One last point.

We have got to do it like professional sports does it.

Start inspiring kids at age 10, whether they go in the military or not, but have competitions with aviation, cyber, whatever it might be.

Some will choose to go in the military.

Some won't.

But what we will be able to do is get the Michael Jordans of the world, who -- because that's what we need in order to keep China from rising.

NICK SCHIFRIN: Chris Walker, Diane Ryan, thanks very much to both of you.

COL. DIANE RYAN (RET.

): Thank you, Nick.

BRIG.

GEN. CHRIS WALKER (RET): My pleasure.